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Poster: ringolevio Date: Oct 8, 2010 12:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Does anyone really like ALL of it?

>There are definitely shows that I love, but for me even a bad show is better than most other music that I would listen to.

Yup.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Oct 8, 2010 12:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Does anyone really like ALL of it?

Come on. Seriously?

Just to take an example close to home a good Phil and Friends show is head and shoulders above a lacklustre 80s or 90s GD show. Straying further afield there are a good number of people I'd rather listen to than a below par Grateful Dead performance - Neil Young, The Band, The Clash, Hot Tuna, Jackie Greene, Little Feat, Leo Kottke, The Low Anthem, Bruce Hornsby, Steve Kimock, The Waybacks, Band of Heathens - all much more worth listening to than a phone it in Dead show. Musical life could be very dull on a restrictive diet of GD and only GD.

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Oct 9, 2010 7:56am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Does anyone really like ALL of it?

Ah the sweet voice of reason.

Obviously everybody's entitled to follow their own ear, to each his own, blah, blah, etc, whatever. But personally I've never been able to see the "even bad Dead is better than most other music" angle. When they're at their best they're absolutely transcendent, when they're good they're still pretty terrific, but when they suck, there is absolutely nothing to differentiate them from anyone else: they suck just like anybody else sucks. While they are obviously my preferred listening choice more often than not, I've learned that there are certain songs, tours, and even years that I'd really rather avoid in favor of listening to something else.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Oct 9, 2010 8:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Does anyone really like ALL of it?

>personally I've never been able to see the "even bad Dead is better than most other music" angle.

Obviously it isn't literally true. It's just an emotional thing. It's certainly true for me that I'd often rather hear bad Grateful Dead than good anything else. That doesn't mean I don't understand that there is actually better music in existence. A relationship to music isn't a totally rational thing - it's a *relationship*. Or maybe even more like a marriage! It's not that one doesn't understand there are people one could know, or that one *does* know, who are better at this or that or an all-round better person even. But one's still married to that someone. Loyalty. Whatever. Maybe not making sense now.

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Oct 9, 2010 8:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Does anyone really like ALL of it?

It's cool, and you're making perfect sense- I definitely understand the "loyalty" dynamic and the feeling of the Dead as maybe not always that great (or even good), but still being "my" band. My original post was really more of a pot stir- there are some Heads who seem to have a knee-jerk reverence for ANYTHING the band did in ANY of its incarnations, and I like to stick a pin in that balloon from time to time.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Oct 8, 2010 1:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Does anyone really like ALL of it?

I listen to lots of other stuff. I guess it's just a manner of speaking, I don't mean it literally. If forced to choose, however - desert island scenario - I could throw out most other things.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Oct 8, 2010 1:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Does anyone really like ALL of it?

I need variety. The Grateful Dead, it goes without saying, are a big part of what I listen to (why else am I here?) but there are just so many other things I want to hear as well. I can become (check - I am ) obsessive about listening to music, always looking for more stuff to download, accumulating a backlog of things I think I really want to hear but, if I'm honest, have to admit I've got little chance of actually devoting time to. I believe some time ago I referred to it as digital anxiety. The curse of our age is unfettered access to information, and some of us are doomed to overload on the rich diet on offer.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 8, 2010 2:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Does anyone really like ALL of it?

I know I did...not really sorry, but an extended break has been necessary.

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Poster: BuckeyeJosh Date: Oct 8, 2010 1:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Does anyone really like ALL of it?

I think the key to my statement was the word "most". I am not saying that there is nothing else out there that is better I was just saying in general I would prefer a lackluster dead performance to just about anything else that is being played mainstream today. I do like Hornsby, and Neil Young a lot, also finding myself listening to Ratdog and Phil and Friends from time to time, and I am open to just about anything at least once, however in my personal experiences I find that there's some good in each show that I hear, and there aren't many other bands I have listened to that I feel that way about. That being said I haven't been at this nearly as long as some of you have, being that I can recall a time not to long ago when I thought this music that I love now just didn't do it for me. So I guess overtime tastes change and who knows maybe one day I will find another band that soothes my soul, until then I am glad we have these shows to get our fix. Besides who am I to decide what shows are good and wich ones arent when I have yet to hear them all?

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Oct 8, 2010 1:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Does anyone really like ALL of it?

Josh - you're totally entitled to express your opinion on a show by show basis. I don't believe there's anyone here who has listened to every show the Grateful Dead ever played, and even if you'd only ever listened to one show you should feel able to make a comment on it. You can decide for yourself which shows you think are good - they'll be the ones you enjoy listening to - and on no account let the smart mouth types like me put you off what you like.

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Poster: Jobygoob Date: Oct 8, 2010 1:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Does anyone really like ALL of it?

One man's idea of dull is another man's idea of heaven. Why be so judgemental?

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Oct 8, 2010 1:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Does anyone really like ALL of it?

I'm not being judgmental. I'm expressing a contrary opinion as part of an ongoing discussion. Try to see the difference.

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Poster: Jobygoob Date: Oct 8, 2010 2:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Does anyone really like ALL of it?

Your prefacing your comments with "come on, seriously" and then categorizing certain tastes as dull struck me as judgmental, sorry.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Oct 8, 2010 2:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Does anyone really like ALL of it?

I did not categorize tastes as dull, I expressed the opinion that some performances are, subjectively of course, superior to others. Don't expect me to preface every utterance with bullshit 'in my opinion' caveats - you should just take that as a given. I'm not talking for anyone else.

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Poster: BuckeyeJosh Date: Oct 8, 2010 2:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Does anyone really like ALL of it?

Thanks Rob, I guess the point I am trying to make is that upon first listen I may feel that a show was awful, but later on it may just be what I am looking for on that day. Its hard to explain the way that this music has seemingly grew upon me like some sort of fungus, it has somehow become deeper an experience than just listening to music for me. And that has happened with shows from every era of the band (for ease I define eras by keyboardists) and there are some years that I find i get into more than others, some shows for me I choose because of a set list, or venue. I really dont have that much trouble switching from 60's to 80's to 90's to last months Furthur shows for me it is all one giant living, breathing, organic machine that streaks across time and of course sometimes it slows to go up a hill or two but coming down the other side sure is one hell of a ride. I just dont like to comment on individual shows because things might change and if i say wow that was a stinker, the next month I may find that touch of grey out of scarlet is pretty nice to my ears.

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Poster: barongsong Date: Oct 9, 2010 10:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Does anyone really like ALL of it?

Wrong Rob, and this is the first time I would say this but most of those bands (but not all) you mention did or do not have the feel or capacity to change on the dime and have the truly amazing happen on a regular basis.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Oct 9, 2010 12:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Does anyone really like ALL of it?

This notion of the Dead's alleged ability to 'turn on a dime' is overplayed and overstated - on bad days they could be just as ponderous as any other worn out old rock band. And they are far from being the only band on the planet to exhibit a musical nimbleness and dexterity. Examples from above, Little Feat, Bruce Hornsby, The Waybacks and various incarnations of Phil and Friends are all capable of performances of grace, power and control. These are skills, earned through long hours of practice and rehearsal, not gifts bestowed from on high. I really don't see how you can tell me I'm wrong in what I said.

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Oct 11, 2010 5:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Does anyone really like ALL of it?

"These are skills, earned through long hours of practice and rehearsal, not gifts bestowed from on high."

Perfectly put.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 10, 2010 7:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Does anyone really like ALL of it?

That's one of the things that the early era taught me; again, I came to all of this with a number of entrenched "myths" as we were discussing the other day, and that "turn on a dime" aspect was one that died hard.

No biggie, of course, just interesting how such views arise, and how we champion them, embrace them, etc. I can hear myself in 73 or so arguing with some Zep freak that The Eleven was an entirely improvised song, that "grew out of" StSt one night...that they rarely did it (do you see how a kid without much availalbe info could think such thing? Right?).

You know, my CREAM phase has taught me they did the same thing--lots of practice, and when they "went" places live, they were generally well thought out, logic places to go...they were also driving too fast to do much else. Doesn't mean I don't think they weren't amazing at it, just different from my childhood mythology...

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Poster: jerrys beard Date: Oct 11, 2010 9:02am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Does anyone really like ALL of it?

Late to the discussion (as usual), agree with Rob...bad music is just bad and the Grateful Dead had some bad nights, months, years. Self-admitted bad nights, shows that didn't work, Jerry's drug abuse, shows that were good until a certain singer ruined great songs (okay, a strong opinion here), Bob's adventure with slide guitar.

There are so many different genres of music, with incredible performances that it seems somehow wasteful (of time) to listen to GD shows that are poor.

The argument could be made that you don't know they are poor until you listen to them, but I believe that is why folks on this forum typically divide themselves into year or eras. I don't really listen to much in the 80's, and short of the Hornsby concerts, nothing in the 90's. It is a way to self-regulate what would otherwise become impossible.

When I retire and aren't working 12 hour days, then I intend to listen, listen and listen some more. But for now, I need a filter. As Rob mentioned elsewhere, I am in the same boat of having hours (probably hundreds) of music downloaded on my computer that I have yet to listen to and more being produced every day!

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